More 4E stuff.

[subplotkudzu]

 This review captures my concerns about 4E. I still haven't read 4E, but while this guy's tone is favorable overall, everything that irks him irks me even more - except perhaps the animation.

Comments

[daftnewt.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'm moving in this direction too. It looks like it could be a fun tactical miniatures game, but basically everything I really liked about the old game - the way it provoked you to learn all sorts of odd stuff, the way you could tinker together the various bits to make a unique setting - is gone from this.

There's also nothing about the game that really encourages you to roleplay anything beyond shouting your war cry or customizing your combat abilities.

I'm still mulling the idea of running it somehow, but the big question for me is how much I'll have to break it to get a game that's going to be more than a simulation of a computer game.*

I admit I'm looking forward to bunches of 3.5 books turning up in the bargain bins in game stores.

(*the value of this I leave as an exercise for the reader)

[brianrogers.livejournal.com]

I'm also frustrated by the lack of character development paths. Yes, AD&D 1E didn't have much by way of these - your fighter had a choice of weapon proficiencies and armor - but 4E gives the illusion of choice by filtering you onto a number of pre-set paths as opposed to the 3E array of skill choices and prestige classes. if AD&D1E had Prestige Paths for characters at 10th level at up I would have thought it great. 20 to 30 years later it's a throwback rather than a feature.

In many ways it reminds me of Earthdawn with the highly specific character types that had X powers that could be purchased at Y "circle", but that ritual feel was built directly into the game world so it felt real (if confining). And, as with Earthdawn, there's no class that says "here, this is simple, you can play this without having to learn a bunch of crunchy bits".

[(Anonymous)]

Everything I hear about 4e can be summed up as: The Munchkins Have Won.

No more roleplaying, everyone starts out incredibly buff and just gets buffer, you're supposed to win every battle, and everything has spiky bits.

It sounds like RIFTS, only less cerebral.


Cambias

[brianrogers.livejournal.com]

Ouch!

[mneme]

I don't know; he doesn't seem to have read very carefully or have thought some things through.

Things like:

Equating the move of Gnomes to the MM to the exicision of Half-orcs.

"If you want to play the young Conan as a 2nd level barbarian/1st level thief, you are SOL." Because you can't play him as a Rogue Student of the Sword or a Fighter with the Rogue multiclass feat?

His comments on Healing Surges making the game too easy seem to indicate that he hasn't played with them -- as the sharp per-day limits on healing are actually a significant limitation over previous games where you could stock up on healing potions.

His inablity to understand marking (ie, paying attention to an enemy and not letting them attack your friends undistracted) and healing surges (that would be "health").

His comment on monsters not being able to mark PCs (see many Soldiers...)

The vancian model as Rituals. I mean...what? Daily spells are the Vancian models, Rituals (being castable an unlimited number of times per day as long as you have money and time) are as far from the Vancean model as at-will spells.