Does System Matter, part VI – FUDGE
Feb. 17th, 2008 09:37 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
subplotkudzuLast week I started a Thought Experiment in supers games, looking at what changes a character goes through when converted from one system to another. This is meant to test the validity of most supers games claims that you can use the system to build “any” character or run “any” kind of game. The character in question – Dr. Zachary Zevon, the Indestructible Man - started in Villains and Vigilantes, and now exists in Silver Age Sentinels, HERO, Marvel Super Heroes, DC Heroes and now, thanks to whswhs,
With a Legendary 2 Mind and Experimental Physics his lowest possible roll is a Good, which is equivalent to normal people doing pretty well. That feels about right. I’m not familiar enough with FUDGE Supers to comment on the damage mechanics, but I’ll trust Mr. Stoddard when he says that the force field will bounce small arms fire and conceivably withstand an anti-tank weapon– that’s good enough to capture the feel of things (assuming we don’t have a circumstance like DC Heroes where people whose fists are as potent as anti-tank weapons grow on trees). The 25 charges tie nearly with the Power scores and Energy points in the other two games, so Zach can still get tired out or overwhelmed – important things to keep the character from being immune to threats. It’s interesting that HERO and DC Heroes don’t have that, where the threat is not time but people having standard access to amounts of force that would break the wall. The more systems we see him in, the more that distinction becomes clear and changes how he would appear in play.
As with V&V, all of the gear is just handwaved away – he’s a genius, he invented it, and it’s secondary to the character concept. I still feel that’s the best way to handle it, with second best being SAS’s “spend some points on having general gear”. Thinking it through, this would be much less viable if one of the other PCs had the power of super-senses, in which case Zach’s scanner would have to be considerably less useful than his teammate’s power. HERO tries to make this less of an issue by charging points for the scanner, but I’d still feel bad if my character’s secondary gear stomped all over someone else’s primary power.
Thanks for the help, Mr. Stoddard. Tomorrow we look atchadu’s Truth & Justice write up.
whswhs, FUDGE.
A quick recap: Dr. Z is the Reed Richards analogue in a Fantastic Four style game. His natural abilities include a massive intellect and scientific skill, a powerful presence & sense-of-self, and an ability to analyze his opponents’ fighting style and the scientific basis for their powers. His superhuman ability is an invisible, highly versatile force field. He is renowned as the smartest man on Mars and is a millionaire with access to advanced technology and the Liberty Lair, his team’s base.
From Bill Stoddard: “Brian asked people familiar with rules systems to design versions of these characters. I don't have time just now to do a GURPS Supers version. But I also wrote the current FUDGE supers rules. So here's a sketch of Zevon in FUDGE.
Zachary Zevon, The Indestructible Man
Attributes [nine levels: two free levels: six levels from gifts: nine levels from scale: eight levels spent on skills]:
Body: Good
Mind: Legendary 2
Soul: Superb
Skills [thirty-four levels: ten free levels: twenty-four levels from attributes]:
Brawling: Good [base is Body]
Cybernetics: Superb
Experimental Physics: Legendary 2
Force Field Engineering: Superb
Materials Science: Great
Nanotechnology: Great
Theoretical Physics: Great
Weakness Identification: Superb
Gifts [eight gifts: two free gifts: nine gifts from scale: three gifts spent on attributes]:
Force Field (supernormal gift): equivalent to wearing full body armor: +4 to damage capacity: battery option, 25 charges, one charge consumed per attack stopped, can expend multiple charges to stop stronger attacks, up to +8 added damage capacity for all 25 charges: 2 gifts
Force Field Expansion: can extend force field to 1-yard bubble at -4 to damage capacity (stops melee attacks, but a missile attack can shoot through it to hit him): 1 gift
Force Field Manipulation: can use force field for power stunts giving +4 to strength scale: with expenditure of a FUDGE point, can come up with other applications: 1 gift
Invention: can invent advanced state-of-the-art devices: 1 gift
Instant Invention (supernormal gift): can invent new devices during the course of an adventure, with portable tools: invented devices have duration one adventure: 2 gifts
Wealth: millionaire: 1 gift
Scale [total scale 24: 9 scale steps converted to nine gifts and nine attribute levels]:
Scale 15 for force field: additional +15 to damage capacity
Notes: The twenty-four scale steps are my standard quota for "heavy hitter" superheroes, as opposed to streetlevel, who would be built on twelve. A twelve-point version of Zevon would do just fine in a street fight but not on a battlefield. Think of the difference between the Avengers first team (Thor, Iron Man, Ant Man, the Wasp, the Hulk) and second team (Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, the Scarlet Witch).
I handwaved the various "adventuring gear" items, such as the nanotech healing system and robot butler at team HQ, and the energy cloth costumes and personal communicators. None of those would actually count as "superpowers," in that they're not trademark items for individual heroes. A fussier accounting could try to figure out how to define each of them as a gift—for example, the nanotech healing system would be one supernormal gift for allowing 24 hours healing (one wound level, in a cinematic setting) in one hour; the energy cloth is effectively damage capacity 2 armor with negligible weight and bulk.
The Indestructible Man has +19 to damage capacity with his force field set skintight, for 25 shots; this drops to +15 for 1 yard radius, +13 for 1.5 yards, +11 for 2.25 yards, +9 for 3.3 yards, +7 for 5 yards, and so on. If he takes a really big hit, he can stand one attack at up to +27 damage capacity. We don't really have detailed stats for weapons, but I figure that gets him up to surviving attacks from antitank weapons. Small arms fire hasn't got a chance of hurting him.
Notes from Brian: This looks like a very solid translation of the character, with minimal loss of fidelity. All the key aspects are clearly listed, with the opening for FUDGE point expenditures to get things like his super-breath tricks. A quick recap: Dr. Z is the Reed Richards analogue in a Fantastic Four style game. His natural abilities include a massive intellect and scientific skill, a powerful presence & sense-of-self, and an ability to analyze his opponents’ fighting style and the scientific basis for their powers. His superhuman ability is an invisible, highly versatile force field. He is renowned as the smartest man on Mars and is a millionaire with access to advanced technology and the Liberty Lair, his team’s base.
From Bill Stoddard: “Brian asked people familiar with rules systems to design versions of these characters. I don't have time just now to do a GURPS Supers version. But I also wrote the current FUDGE supers rules. So here's a sketch of Zevon in FUDGE.
Zachary Zevon, The Indestructible Man
Attributes [nine levels: two free levels: six levels from gifts: nine levels from scale: eight levels spent on skills]:
Body: Good
Mind: Legendary 2
Soul: Superb
Skills [thirty-four levels: ten free levels: twenty-four levels from attributes]:
Brawling: Good [base is Body]
Cybernetics: Superb
Experimental Physics: Legendary 2
Force Field Engineering: Superb
Materials Science: Great
Nanotechnology: Great
Theoretical Physics: Great
Weakness Identification: Superb
Gifts [eight gifts: two free gifts: nine gifts from scale: three gifts spent on attributes]:
Force Field (supernormal gift): equivalent to wearing full body armor: +4 to damage capacity: battery option, 25 charges, one charge consumed per attack stopped, can expend multiple charges to stop stronger attacks, up to +8 added damage capacity for all 25 charges: 2 gifts
Force Field Expansion: can extend force field to 1-yard bubble at -4 to damage capacity (stops melee attacks, but a missile attack can shoot through it to hit him): 1 gift
Force Field Manipulation: can use force field for power stunts giving +4 to strength scale: with expenditure of a FUDGE point, can come up with other applications: 1 gift
Invention: can invent advanced state-of-the-art devices: 1 gift
Instant Invention (supernormal gift): can invent new devices during the course of an adventure, with portable tools: invented devices have duration one adventure: 2 gifts
Wealth: millionaire: 1 gift
Scale [total scale 24: 9 scale steps converted to nine gifts and nine attribute levels]:
Scale 15 for force field: additional +15 to damage capacity
Notes: The twenty-four scale steps are my standard quota for "heavy hitter" superheroes, as opposed to streetlevel, who would be built on twelve. A twelve-point version of Zevon would do just fine in a street fight but not on a battlefield. Think of the difference between the Avengers first team (Thor, Iron Man, Ant Man, the Wasp, the Hulk) and second team (Captain America, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, the Scarlet Witch).
I handwaved the various "adventuring gear" items, such as the nanotech healing system and robot butler at team HQ, and the energy cloth costumes and personal communicators. None of those would actually count as "superpowers," in that they're not trademark items for individual heroes. A fussier accounting could try to figure out how to define each of them as a gift—for example, the nanotech healing system would be one supernormal gift for allowing 24 hours healing (one wound level, in a cinematic setting) in one hour; the energy cloth is effectively damage capacity 2 armor with negligible weight and bulk.
The Indestructible Man has +19 to damage capacity with his force field set skintight, for 25 shots; this drops to +15 for 1 yard radius, +13 for 1.5 yards, +11 for 2.25 yards, +9 for 3.3 yards, +7 for 5 yards, and so on. If he takes a really big hit, he can stand one attack at up to +27 damage capacity. We don't really have detailed stats for weapons, but I figure that gets him up to surviving attacks from antitank weapons. Small arms fire hasn't got a chance of hurting him.
With a Legendary 2 Mind and Experimental Physics his lowest possible roll is a Good, which is equivalent to normal people doing pretty well. That feels about right. I’m not familiar enough with FUDGE Supers to comment on the damage mechanics, but I’ll trust Mr. Stoddard when he says that the force field will bounce small arms fire and conceivably withstand an anti-tank weapon– that’s good enough to capture the feel of things (assuming we don’t have a circumstance like DC Heroes where people whose fists are as potent as anti-tank weapons grow on trees). The 25 charges tie nearly with the Power scores and Energy points in the other two games, so Zach can still get tired out or overwhelmed – important things to keep the character from being immune to threats. It’s interesting that HERO and DC Heroes don’t have that, where the threat is not time but people having standard access to amounts of force that would break the wall. The more systems we see him in, the more that distinction becomes clear and changes how he would appear in play.
As with V&V, all of the gear is just handwaved away – he’s a genius, he invented it, and it’s secondary to the character concept. I still feel that’s the best way to handle it, with second best being SAS’s “spend some points on having general gear”. Thinking it through, this would be much less viable if one of the other PCs had the power of super-senses, in which case Zach’s scanner would have to be considerably less useful than his teammate’s power. HERO tries to make this less of an issue by charging points for the scanner, but I’d still feel bad if my character’s secondary gear stomped all over someone else’s primary power.
Thanks for the help, Mr. Stoddard. Tomorrow we look at
chadu’s Truth & Justice write up. 
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no subject
Date: 2008-02-17 04:34 pm (UTC)If I were going to mechanic it, here are some options:
The nanotech surgical apparatus: That could be defined as a supernormal gift allowing 24 hours of healing (enough to heal one wound level, in a cinematic campaign) in one hour (an application of the "battery option"). But the gear is big, bulky, and immobile, which counts as a supernormal fault. So net cost 0. Handwaving is okay.
The robot butler: On one hand, he could be treated as an ally, and I don't favor charging points for allies in FUDGE. On the other hand, if he's just equipment, he can be defined as having the supernormal gift "robotic body" and the supernormal fault "soulless," which cancel out in his internal design; and in relation to Dr. Zevon, he's an enhanced version of standard technology, effectively a household robot with a fully realized social interface, which is a standard gift, and on the other hand, as "equipment," he can travel about but can't easily be picked up and carried, which is a standard fault. So, again, net cost 0.
The energy cloth armor seems to be basically standard flexible armor, subtracting 2 from damage level of attacks. It has the minor benefit of being effectively without mass, thickness, or vulnerability to materials-destroying attacks. I'd probably call that a standard gift. Net cost 1 gift.
The communicator seems to be a standard communication device, except that it has a private channel that makes it invulnerable to the sort of messing around that can be done with standard communications. I'd probably call that a standard gift. Net cost 1 gift.
The force field that protects a user from vacuum for 5 minutes seems pretty minor; at most I'd call it 1 standard gift.
Arguably, these three smaller items are things that Dr. Zevon could have put on the market—they might explain his being rich. If so, he could justify having them on the ground that he's rich enough to afford state-of-the-art gear!
no subject
Date: 2008-02-18 09:26 am (UTC)The Personal Environment Generator is another such item, mostly an excuse for us to be traipsing around on outside the New Philadelphia dome without bulky space suits. Perhaps it's the narrativist in me, but I balk at being charged serious points for a device created to extend the GMs range of story options. "The 5 minutes in Vacuum" function is just a dramatic element as well, so we're all more comfortable flying into space without bulky suits.
But you're right - he's rich because he can invent cutting edge gear, which then becomes state of the arit, which he can then afford without points because he's rich. These are the perils of super-intelligence in supers games.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-18 05:33 pm (UTC)Oh, that's likely true. Note that my first thought was to handwave it, because statting it out looked too fussy and un-FUDGE-like.
As to wealth, I'm using another method for dealing with this in my current FUDGE Discworld campaign: characters have a fourth attribute, Status, which defines their place in society. In the Discworld, an example of Terrible Status is Foul Old Ron; an example of Legendary Status is the Emperor Cohen. It's possible for a character to have Rich as a gift or Poor as a fault, relative to their Status; for example, Granny Weatherwas has Good Status but is poor. Dr. Zevon might either have Superb Status, or have merely Good Status but be rich.
Another thing to note is that his getting a merely Good result for Mind or Experimental Physics is the equivalent of a critical failure/fumble in other systems. . . .