If the existing model doesn't work for them they build a different model. I get that. But use different terms for cryin' out loud! Don't redefine the commonly used terms and then start trying to impose them on everyone else. Especially when your new model is so clearly slanted in the favor of your preferred style - how is it that Nar can explicitly not include railroad GMs, but Sim gets lumped with all the bad gaming stuff? Railroad GMs are Narrativists running bad games. That's not avoidable, no matter how you define things.
It's like the Big Model designers were attacked by a copy of Harn as a kid or something....
if you want exploration with your gamism, you have to get it somewhere else than your urge for conflict and real opposition.
I don't see that, either. If I'm playing for Gamist reasons I want things to be a challenge, and will work within the system to maxamize effect. If I realize (as one of my more Gamist players has) that I can explore the world to gain benefits in my conflicts and against my opposition - in other words if I am exploring the world as a puzzle - then I will do so. I'll explore the history and culture of the Bear people because I can get a +2 circumstance bonus on Bluff & Diplomacy rolls to pass through their territory unscathed if I mention stories of their great heroes. It's still conflict and real opposition, but exploring the world was just as useful to me, and cheaper, than a Cloak of Charisma +2, and better still, it STACKS! I'm still interested in the world, still exploring it, but my brain is ticking over how I can use it to better solve the challenges I face, and how doing so makes me a better, more successful adventurer than those who don't.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 07:38 am (UTC)It's like the Big Model designers were attacked by a copy of Harn as a kid or something....
if you want exploration with your gamism, you have to get it somewhere else than your urge for conflict and real opposition.
I don't see that, either. If I'm playing for Gamist reasons I want things to be a challenge, and will work within the system to maxamize effect. If I realize (as one of my more Gamist players has) that I can explore the world to gain benefits in my conflicts and against my opposition - in other words if I am exploring the world as a puzzle - then I will do so. I'll explore the history and culture of the Bear people because I can get a +2 circumstance bonus on Bluff & Diplomacy rolls to pass through their territory unscathed if I mention stories of their great heroes. It's still conflict and real opposition, but exploring the world was just as useful to me, and cheaper, than a Cloak of Charisma +2, and better still, it STACKS! I'm still interested in the world, still exploring it, but my brain is ticking over how I can use it to better solve the challenges I face, and how doing so makes me a better, more successful adventurer than those who don't.